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Giveth Governance Meeting #27

March 29th, 2018

Youtube Livestream - https://youtu.be/_l4FujUaM0w

Attending

Kay, Kris, Griff, Yalor, DAppLion, Edu, Satya, Emex, Kitteh, RJ, Bowen, Quazia

dropped-in: Joshua left-early: Kitteh

Check-in

  • Kris; 3 Proposal= efficiently, team video YAY
  • Kay: Fast meeting!
  • Kitteh: Leaving 5, sad about being robbed, Toggle off in 5
  • Yalor: Takes notes. Hyperfocused.
  • Griff: push meeting along fast, lots of muting, toggled on.
  • RJ: No distractions, talk about payments
  • Quazia: Distracted by multisend. Intention tryion
  • Satya: Kids are loud, lets talk about payments
  • Edu: None and None
  • Alex: Here with nothing to say
  • Bowen; I'm distractd by errors, will contribute where neccesary
  • Lindsey: Driving through mountains YAY, ready for meeeting.
  • DAppLion: Roarrrrr, None, I'm fully engauged in getting DAppNode to next level, Toggled off

Logistics

Toggled-Off: DApplion, Joshua

Agenda

  • Point1: Resolve payment issues that come from late payment and volatility
  • Point2: Superdemo or Presentation

Point1

Tension

In december we spent a lot of time defining the budgets. We agreed upon how much everyone would get paid. Budget went into effect in January. We filed milestones based on that budget. Some peoples payments went through some did not. That doesn't matter. The main issue is that since Ether has crashed and payments did not go out on time a lot of the payment has vaporized in terms of fiat. This is not sustainable. People should not be forced to bet on the ether price for their salary.

Proposal

Compensate or create insurance somehow to mitigate this volatility. Satya cannot justify working for Giveth with the current payout structure. Two options forward:: 1. Do a reserve so that the conversion rate is handled ON PAYOUT instead of on creation. See Loomio for a more complete description. 2. Payout every month, if we are late with payments we can do an "interest fee" through an additional milestone. Used fixed payout dates so we know what exchange rates to use. See Loomio for a more complete description. 3. Handle payouts directly through a multi-sig

Clarifying Questions

Q1 Kris - What do you mean you cannot continue due to the current situation? Is your work on hold?

Satya - Yeah, I need to make some money. Will not make new regular rewards milestones.

Q2 Emex - Are you saying this solution should exist indefinitly. Does this apply to re-imbursemet and rewardDAO?

Satya - Yeah we knew the volatility existed from the start. We need a long term solution. This effects projects we onboard as well. Expenses yes. Not sure about RewardDAO

Q3 Kris - won't there still be volatility in option 2? Vojetch - This isn't an issue as long as people will receive money right away. The important part is to do firm deadlines for when payouts happen.

Reactions

RJ - Likes Satya's proposal but this isn't a quick answer. For the time being we need to just do payouts on time. This should extend to everything with a Fiat budget. MultiSends are a lot of work, monthly makes sense. Having an incentive layer will ease this tension. Use a stable coin.

Edu - No reaction; is distracted

Yalor - I like the idea of the payouts being closer AFAIK. Agrees the insurance policy will take longer.

Emex - Likes vojtechs because it's easier to implement. Might have to abandon the MultiSend unless we can fix it.

Q: Use a stable coin, multisend with monthly payouts sounds good. Smart contract insurence is novel but likely too technical.

Kris - Bi-weekly or monthly would be great. We should hire somebody just for finance or budgeting(emex?). Not okay with using a stable coin. Would prefer to get paid in Ether. Doesn't like the monthly rate, having the rate at the moment the milestone goes out protects people from volatility. Would prefer not to change the DApp. Agree with the idea of making an additional milestone if we're not getting paid.

Kay - Good feedback so far. The most imporant thing is to get payouts out quickly. Make a milestone, get paid out quickly. As long as we have this manual process it's hard. Averaging out volatility is good for regular rewards.

Griff - Budget started on the 15th of Dec, he always offered to front any ether to anyone, this was the first proposal to fix the issue. We've been delayed due to feature creep since the DApp sucks and we have to deal with that. The issue is due to ether crashing and milestones not coming as fast as they need to. This wouldn't be an issue if we didn't move to Rinkeby. The actual price right now is cheap, I would think satya would want to make these milestones. There is a centralization issue on the multisend. Need to get more people to learn how to do the multi-send. There is a risk in V's idea, if we have a dip on the one day we pay out, we get fucked, as Kris mentioned.

Lindsey - Handing it off

BowenSanders - Agrees with Kris and Griff

Amend and Clarify

Most people seemed to be in favor of Vojtech's solution. Not sure what to say. A stable coin is too ambitious(?). Let's try to implement Vojtech's solution as soon as possible but there may be an issue with sample size, we don't want milestones on milestones. Let's do another Loomio and do another discussion.

Kris will add a discussion.

Result

Tabled for further conversation

Point2

Tension

EDcon sent an email today asking for a superdemo presentation vs a talk. We arn't promised a SuperDemo but if we choose a superdemo they will probably give the talk if we don't get the superdemo. If we do the SuperDemo we need to pimp out the DApp which might be a waste of time as the design will be shifted.

Proposal

Pick the SuperDemo, might not be able to do the Giveth talk in 15 minutes.

Clarifying Questions

Satya - Demo is an onstage demo and the presentation is a 15 minute talk?

Griff - Demo is 6-9 of demo and 6-9 for talk.

Reactions

Super Demo: Emex Kay Satya RJ Yalor Griff Edu Bowen

Giveth Galaxy Talk: Kris

Emex - In favor of super demo

Kay - Likes the super demo, could be really cool let's put some campaigns on it. People will like what we have.

Satya - In favour of a superdemo. The demos are always cool lets do it. Real stuff is cool theory sux. We could give the DApp a smooth cover of paint easily. No doubt we should do the SuperDemo.

RJ - We should do the SuperDemo, it's boring when people give the same talks over and over. We need a full list of the tweaks that need to be done before we make a decision.

Kris - 100% in favour of presenting all of Giveth and not doing the demo. The DApp is not that comlpicated, we can do everything in 15 minutes. A slick screen grab could be just as good as the demo. If we use videos nothing can go wrong. We can also show stuff beyond the DApp itself. This is a big conference we can have a big impact with a presentation + demo.

Yalor - Supports the demo even though partial to the talk.

Edu - In favor f the super demo. Is a demo fan in general.

Bowen - Super in favor of the superdemo but Kris is right about everything that he said. Doing live demos of software is messy. If you have all your cards in a row and have a backup "this cannot fail version" is best.

Amend and Clarify

Doing the superdemo is a risk we should take. It'll be fun. Agrees with the risks but lets just do it. We do the superdemo. We will get confirmation that we will talk or present in some way.

Result

Accepted

Recap

  1. More conversation on payouts
  2. Doing superdemo at EDcon

Check-out

Kris : we're getting good at governance meetings

Alex : Good meeting. Satya's proposal is kewl. Lets see this video.

RJ : Smoother than expected. Probably because we tabled longer discussions

Yalor : Felt fast, that's good.

Bowen : Happy and proud to be part of such a well governed organization. Smoothest running organization he's been apart of.

Kay : The combination of Loomio and the spoken meeting is working. Who else does it this way?

Joshua : Cool to see how this is working. The idea of decentralized governance working is cool.

Satya : Thought it would be a more intense discussion but nothing was actually decided. Good general vibe.

DAppLion : Good vibe, can't wait to dive deeper and see how the governance works.

Lindsey : Can't wait to get back with the Giveth team. Going through storms.

Quazia : Good meeting went quick, lets watch the video.

End of meeting

07:13