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16th Governance meeting Jan 05th

Link to livestream part 1 Link to livestream part 2

Notes #16 Giveth Governance Meeting Jan 5th, 2018

Note: names are shortened, attending: Kris, Griff, Jen, RJ, Vojtech, Kay, Oz, Edu, Alex, Satya

Check-in: different distractions, people are interested about what Griff has to say

Griff: Toggled on! Distracted by coming straight out of endless phone calls, planning on a big change in the roadmap Jen: I can take notes Kris, not distracted V: tired RJ: interested in the discussion Oz: Excited to strategize Alex: coffee Kay: Toggled off Satya: came late Edu:Interested in the new issue

Weekly update at beginning of the meeting: 6:00 pm central european time

Our week in review was done in the middle here

Logistics: Toggle off ? Kay

Agenda:

  1. Mainnet tragedy? Solutions?

2. Multisig Payments?

Point 1. Mainnet tragedy? Solutions?

Tension: deploying campaigns but realized how expensive things where. Everyone in the network is dying, gas prices are ridiculous, network is broken. It's

Proposal: moving back to testnet, reconsidering the roadmap, research other opportunities with the current dapp, making payments on main net, consider building a coalition

  1. Start on alpha on test net, continue forward

  2. second group is researching new coalitions with other blockchains?

Clarifying question: why back to test net? Everyone is using it, we continue on testnet but considering a proof of authority chain, likely many projects (Aragon, status, district) would be interested in being involved, a lot of people are realizing this problem and going together on a solution. While we build this coalition on the side. Deploying a campaign costs 80 USD right now. Right now if we want to deploy a milestone it costs 40 USD which is not reasonable.

Reactions:

S: does not think that the cost is an issue, we deploy one and he thinks we can effort the 80 USD, it should not have an impact if we are on main net or test net, does not make a difference, transparency has to be most important,

Kris: agrees with both, counter proposal: deploy main campaigns on main net but no milestones on, the project is ready for main net, let's not go back to test net, let's practise what we preach, pay out with multi sig, let's put 3 campaigns on main net, for the rest we do it on test net

V: has a similar reaction, thinks that it is unreasonable to pay 80USD per milestone, he never wanted to go on main net that quickly, there are issues that need to be solved, does not see a problem with transparency, transactions can be traced on test net, big question: what is the cost to go from main net to test net, do we have a scalability issue?

Alex: same feelings than kris, 35USD for a milestone is crazy and payments should not be delayed, network is super slow atm, no one ever had to face that

RJ: agees that 80USD is not that much but what will it be in 3 months time? We have to find a solution, does not think we should deploy campaigns on main net, system will get more use on test net, going with what griff said, main net payments and transaction hash can be linked (Griff: what do u think the cost of development time for a token?) RJ: does not like the idea due to security issues, less than a week to get this working, vulnerabilities are there, we need to research how this will work

Jen: it is an issue that it takes too long to pay people. It makes us LOOK less trustworthy, making people wait sux. And we will lose people if they dont trust that they can get paid. If its easier and better to pay people, then we should focus on that. $80 is too much for a milestone, we don't know where its going and we need to

EDU: deploy to test net,

Oz: trusts Griff, it's not that uncommon that the ground moves underneath u and u have to go with the change…..it's naive to go for quick small wins, the eco system changes a lot

Amend and clarify: Maintaing our Beta, Griff will help out with gas price for main net deployments, does not like that we didn't pay people in a long time Will we have scalability issues on test net? Potential for that, that's why test net needs a stop gap solution, we can run our governance, can integrate meta mask, we can continue our system and model DAC, on private chain we can't (well we can but we maintain our infrastructure around it) test net is an easier solution, potential for attack goes down a lot, we can create our own token, we can create something similar then the vault, biggest problem is: linking donations is a lot harder, people should be able to donate to giveth and delegate funds with our system, create a pledge on test net. We should pause dev on main net because it costs so much and that we research, we can still go back to main net, we go back to test net and start to develop a proof of authorities

Objections: Satya wants to pay the USD for the milestones, monthly milestones instead of weekly, 20 milestones a 25 euros, donations: we could group donations to revolution.eth and solve the problem this way,

RJ: what's the point in using liquid pledging: why would anyone use our platform, it works fine to pay people once a month when its in ether

K: open ip our platform in MARCH, donations are coming in at revolution.eth, only we are using giveth for now, there is no reason to be live on main net, testing liquid pledging works best with seperate milestones, transparency is better with different milestones

V: set up an address like a simple contract for each campaign, whenever someone sends ether we can issue some tokens, test token can be used on test net, we can add this to the donate page. Griff: great solution, people can interact with giveth with the tokens, this is valuable research, big win in linking of chains without much costs.

Amending clarify: l: investigate vojtech's idea, each campaign will have a notification so that donors can get in touch with people who are involved in a campaign

K: donate buttons for different circles but honestly he would not like to give any access to the dapp because we haven't pledged yet

Linking chains, Linking Donations Cost of milestones. Potential for attack

Point 2. Paying people.

Tension: people are not getting payed! That's not good

Proposal: we doing manual payments to an extend, using multisig is expensive, we do regular payments (every two weeks), we make one transaction that sends data to different people, it sends x eth to different people, build it in a transparent spreadsheet (maybe sandstorm), do all our accounting in an open google doc, we build an accounting team and build a circle around it, find people to lead this issues, use our multisig to pay people Clarifying question: Satya: every two weeks we deploy a multisig? No, it's a contract, a small, simple contract, still the issue of deploying or not? To make up for the loss of milestones, can we use contracts instead? Read from the blockchain where eth is coming from, we don't have milestones anymore. Griff wants to have it the other way around to link to the milestone, pay and add the link to the milestone. Alex: will the spread has the same information then the milestone? G: spread will end up working with the milestone. It's a second check, most important accounting is working on the dapp. Spread is taking info from the dapp. Spread generates the data for the payments, every week multisig meeting to click yes for payments

Reactions:

Alex: good idea

V: very happy with this solution, maybe it's almost to late

Oz: think it's a good solution, giveth is trying to be a pioneer so let's do it

Jen: likes the idea, does not think it's a problem to organize regular payments

Kris: likes the idea, does not think we need a new circle, good topic for the governance meeting, organizing: let's take the current system not in the regular rewards form and whoever does the administration put's it in the actual google sheet and then put it in the multisig, full transparency= one transaction per person to see the money flow

RJ: we should use the milestones, not sure what the google sheet was for, we can run a script

Satya: good plan, like to have this connection btw evidence on the chain, we need to see on chain what is paid

New proposal: google doc was temporary solution, if it's easy to write a script, let's do it, human's need to double check so we need a double checking, Griff does not what do it, spread gives the extra of transparency. Does not has to be a new circle: create an admin circle to work on this solutions

Satya: we just started to deploy milestones-ios that in the new system. RJ: sets up testnet and copy over

Satya: if we move everything to alpha, some of the reward dao and expenses need to be added and then what is the target to pay out? G: we will next friday and every friday after this we make a payment from the multisig, milestones get up on test net and payments on multisig on friday will be paid out.

Every friday we pay people out of the multisig due to milestones that are in the test net and create a subcircle for administration within the governance circle.

Check out:

Griff: thanks for staying, that was a tough meeting

V: very interesting meeting thanks for staying

Satya: sad what we do but we have to show off how to be a transparent charity

Jen:great meeting, good changes

Kris: same, next meeting i hope to see u guys again:)

Kay: thx for meeting

Alex: great meeting,we solved stuff that we had issues with. Good that we don't spend money on stuff that's not necessary

Oz: great meeting, see you next week

RJ: was his favourite meeting, appreciates every feedback and is happy with the plan we came up with

End of meeting: 7.30 pm

@channel! The Summary from today's governance meeting:

Summary of the Gov Meeting Jan 6, 2017 Point 1: With "tears in our eye's" we head back to test net, as the fees are just to much. The Details:

A. The Mainnet deployment will stay there and if something changes, maybe we can use it. Griff will support the people who want to play on mainnet, but its a waste of effort. B. RJ is deploying a tokenized version on Rinkeby testnet asap. We will use this for our accounting system and use it just as we would on Mainnet to organize ourselves. C. We build a centralized peg to our LP token on Rinkeby, creating a donation bucket to accept ETH for each of the Campaigns and the DACs and then forward the ETH to our multisig. D. While we are working on this Peg to Rinkeby we will start building a coalition to collaborate with other for other DApps that need a solution as well

Amend and clarify:

Maintaing our Beta, Griff will help out with gas price for main net deployments, does not like that we didn't pay people in a long time

Will we have scalability issues on test net? Potential for that, that's why test net needs a stop gap solution, we can run our governance, can integrate meta mask, we can continue our system and model DAC, on private chain we can't (well we can but we maintain our infrastructure around it) test net is an easier solution, potential for attack goes down a lot, we can create our own token, we can create something similar then the vault, biggest problem is: linking donations is a lot harder, people should be able to donate to giveth and delegate funds with our system, create a pledge on test net. We should pause dev on main net because it costs so much and that we research, we can still go back to main net, we go back to test net and start to develop a proof of authorities

Objections:

Satya wants to pay the USD for the milestones, monthly milestones instead of weekly, 20 milestones a 25 euros, donations: we could group donations to revolution.eth and solve the problem this way,

RJ: what's the point in using liquid pledging: why would anyone use our platform, it works fine to pay people once a month when its in ether

K: open ip our platform in MARCH, donations are coming in at revolution.eth, only we are using giveth for now, there is no reason to be live on main net, testing liquid pledging works best with seperate milestones, transparency is better with different milestones

V: set up an address like a simple contract for each campaign, whenever someone sends ether we can issue some tokens, test token can be used on test net, we can add this to the donate page. Griff: great solution, people can interact with giveth with the tokens, this is valuable research, big win in linking of chains without much costs.

Amending clarify: l: investigate vojtech's idea, each campaign will have a notification so that donors can get in touch with people who are involved in a campaign

K: donate buttons for different circles but honestly he would not like to give any access to the dapp because we haven't pledged yet

Linking chains, Linking Donations

Cost of milestones.

Potential for attack

Point 2. Every friday we pay people out of the multisig (special meeting for this) due to milestones that are in the test net and create a subcircle for administration within the governance circle.